Paul C. Buff, Inc. Technical Forum

I think the answer is pretty simple actually. Paul is an extremely smart businessman. He considers "Return on Investment", "Product Margins", and "Operating Margins" ahead of a few people's desire for an update to a light he has not even released yet. I am sure he would love to get his large investment back on the current product before putting focus on a next generation update. The fact that he already has pre-sale orders for the current lights that would be considered a good year for many of the other top-tier light vendors is the point I believe he is making with regards to "the masses". If he lost focus now and start looking into the future prior to getting his current light out the door, it could turn into another PR nightmare for him the likes of AB Max. Given that he is a hands-on owner, he can not afford the luxury other large corp CEOs have of looking into the future before he accomplishes the present.

As to your comments on the Elinchrom products. The 600RX and the Ranger AS RX were on my short list, as are the photogenic and Einsteins. My priority right now is obviosuly the Einstein and I have already purchases some other items waiting for their release.

Last comment on the masses... If one were to spend some time on many of the photo forums, blogs, Modelling sites, etc (which I am sure you do since you are here) I think one would see that there are more threads related to the love/hate relationship everyone has with the AB products and I believe this is "the masses" that Paul is referring to. But thank you for your explanation of the P&S, flash user, Strobist list of masses. :)

Russell

Russell, there's a misunderstanding.

I thought I was pretty clear but I was never suggesting any UPDATE or UPGRADE of the 640WS Einstein. I like it just the way it is. What I want is the 1300Ws ADDITION to the Einstein family. Others have said the same - see those posts. In fact I want a 1300WS unit AND 1 or 2 of the 640Ws units.

Just like Paul's own White Lightning X-Series come in 330, 660 and 1320 watt-secs, it makes sense for the Einstein generation to have the 1300 watt sec unit alongside the 640 one. (The 330Ws one, as Paul had elaborated, would be unnecessary due to the 9 stop control range of the Einstein and limited savings a reduced-output unit would offer vs the 640WS medium output one). If X-series have a 1320 watt-secs option and Zeuss has the higher output option I do not see a good reason why somehow it's fundamentally different for the Einstein.

I hope this makes things clear.

For me, if I need more than the 640Ws I tend to gravitate to using a pack since when I need more light than that, I generally want as much as I can get and I'd take 2400 Ws or even a bi-tube 4800 Ws. In addition, above the 500 Ws to 700 Ws range, I start liking the trade off of having all the weight in the air instead of a heavy pack and a lightweight head less and less.

I am already ecstatic about being able to buy several Einsteins for when I need less power. I'd be even more impressed if eventually Paul would think about doing an IGBT version of Zeus, and I'd happily pay 2x the price of the current Zeus packs because that would save me even more money, but I absolutely understand the much smaller market size for packs (and for higher wattage monolights) in this price range.

Ronald

While I agree a 1200 w/s or even 2400 w/s Einstein would be a big seller (if Paul designed it for professional use), the best form for this, IMO, is a power pack and head design rather than a mono head. The heads could be a much simplified and light weight version of the Einstein 640 (but with a handle built into the back of the head), and the pack would basically be everything the Zeus wasn't (sorry Paul), a viable system for hard core professional use. The design could also exceed a lot of current pack designs. A few things I'd like to see:

2400 w/s, 2 independent channels @ 1200 w/s and a single channel at 2400 w/s output, low center of gravity (not tall and thin like the Zeus, rather short and squatty), a system to hang the pack from your light stand to use it as a weight. A single, non splitting and well built handle (another move away from Zeus). Since 2400 w/s is a bit much for home use (but we're designing this for professionals, remember?), maybe a fast and slow recharge setting to keep the option of a 3 second cycle when in locations with good breakers? And basically all the good things the Einsteins seem to be, with maybe the addition of a built in remote receiver rather than a plug in like the Einstein, one that can be bypassed with a Pocket Wizard if needed or chosen. $1500-1700 price tag for a pack and two heads?

@ Cineski

I agree that Einstein's color temp consistency and other features can really benefit any and all lights eventually.

1200...1400 watt-sec is the area where power packs and monolights have traditionally overlapped in terms of light power, with good reason.

While power packs do lend themselves to scaling beyond that power range much better than monolights, at 1300-1400 watt-sec monolights are still pretty usable in terms of handling, including Paul's own. As a result many makers have them and many users like them. It's a cost-effective way to add a pretty powerful key light to your system, to work in concert with one or more mid-powered monolights, which can all be quite flexibly and independently positioned. And everything is consistent in terms of function and color temp etc.

But I agree wholeheartedly that it'd be a great day when we have Einstein brains in strobes of every form factor and power level.

Send us $200,000 for development costs and give us 8 or 10 months and we'll build you one.

I'm using AB-800s now and the Einstein will give me twice the output. Most of the time I already have to dial the power down, so I know the Einstein will give me more than enough power. I guess that makes me the average user :)

The desire for more power is understandable, but I think Paul knows very well where the peak market is and he knows the technical limitations better than anyone of us. Doubling the max power does not give you twice the recycle time for free at 1/2 power. If you want half the recycle time you need twice the power feeding the strobe. It would mean a new power supply and probably a redesign of many components to handle twice the power.

But even if there was a 1300 Ws Einstein, you can be sure you'll find a 'majority' in a forum poll that needs just one stop more and half the recycle time because they are lighting warehouse interiors once a year and really need it. :) Where does it end?

I think the power of the Einstein are pretty much spot on what the majority needs/wants. If I need serious power for a job I rent a few Zeus to help me out. It doesn't make sense to design and buy a product based on the largest job possible. It mean you are spending, designing and using it inefficiently for 99% of the time.

I'd agree w/ this as well...I'd love to see a Zeus w/ Einstein tech.

What puzzles me is why the X2400 wasn't a bigger seller. It seemed to hit the optimal weight vs. power (1000ws for roughly 6#) of monoheads, but people liked the X1600 or X3200 better.
Having said that, it's very obvious that the 640ws of the Einstein is the sweet spot (especially w/ the more efficient modifers in the PLM and HOBD)...hopefully it'll sell enough and gives Paul enough profit that he can fund a more powerful version (if demand is there)...

8 or 10 months is just fine. $200K for "one" 1300Ws monolight of course isn't. Given your Einstein 640 at $439.95 is similarly priced to the 660Ws White Lightning X1600, I would expect to pay for the "Einstein 1300" something similar to the 1320Ws White Lightning X3200 monolight priced at $669.

I believe we are in sync. The only place we differ is the timing of the conversation. I for one, do not want to distract from getting the current Einsteins out just as quickly as possible. And, I do not think it is fair to expect Paul to hint at a new product before he even gets his current new product out. Just image if he were to say "yes, I am thinking about a 1300WS per second light". That would be blasted all over the place and distract from the amazing light he is about to release. It's just not good business sense for him to do that.

And please do not respond with "hinting at a new light will help drive people to buy the current Einstein". He already has more pre-orders than he can deal with, he does not need the extra publicity.

Thanks
Russell