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Sat Nov 19, 2011 1:41 am

Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2011 12:24 pm
Posts: 38

tetrode wrote:
Dave Jr wrote:
Dave, what do you think of the handle idea, no good?


Actually, Dave, that idea has potential. I've been using a screwdriver in the umbrella tube as a handle. I think in this application, a T-handle would not be appropriate because orientation of the wings of the "T" would be variable. The T-handle could not be permanently attached because then the support rod would have to be secured from the front and a 6-sided nut cannot rotate freely against the slanted face of the speedring insert. True, it doesn't have to be a 6-sided nut but securing and adjusting the rod from the front would be a less than ideal arrangement.

I think a better solution would be a 5/16" tapped tapered handle like this:

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/Long-T ... 9+CST+2011

That could be used as a direct replacement for the wing nut I'm currently using. I have a Grainger near me so I just might swing by and pick up one of these handles.

Dave F.



I looked at that one too, and several others from Grainger. I think that one would work. But did you see the ratchet handle I linked to (bottom of my first post), would it be too weak? It is just like the one used on many strobe mounts. I like the ratchet handle idea because you can turn it any way you wish to get it out of the way, or, position for best leverage. With a heavy modifier, that shape of handle positioned to twelve o clock would give better leverage. If the one I linked to is too weak to handle that type of lever load, maybe there is a heavier duty version available.

The other thing I was thinking, why not put the wing nut (or a different type of removable nut) on the other side instead, then you could use the threaded bar with handle all the time, and just add the wing nut when you need to also trap the modifier. Maybe you could drill a hole in the threaded stock to allow the umbrella thumb screw to secure the threaded bar for the handle when the wing nut is not in use? Does that make any sense?




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Sat Nov 19, 2011 11:38 am

Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 1:19 pm
Posts: 164

Dave Jr wrote:
I looked at that one too, and several others from Grainger. I think that one would work. But did you see the ratchet handle I linked to (bottom of my first post), would it be too weak? It is just like the one used on many strobe mounts. I like the ratchet handle idea because you can turn it any way you wish to get it out of the way, or, position for best leverage. With a heavy modifier, that shape of handle positioned to twelve o clock would give better leverage. If the one I linked to is too weak to handle that type of lever load, maybe there is a heavier duty version available.

The other thing I was thinking, why not put the wing nut (or a different type of removable nut) on the other side instead, then you could use the threaded bar with handle all the time, and just add the wing nut when you need to also trap the modifier. Maybe you could drill a hole in the threaded stock to allow the umbrella thumb screw to secure the threaded bar for the handle when the wing nut is not in use? Does that make any sense?


Season to taste, Dave ;) I tried a ratchet handle but decided it was too easy to overtighten:

Image

Image

Image

Once the tension was properly adjusted with the ratchet handle, I found it necessary (or at least prudent) to also tighten the Einstein's umbrella shaft locking knob to prevent the threaded support rod from being pulled toward the rear of the light excessively by the ratchet handle. Incidentally, the umbrella locking knob does an excellent job of holding the threaded rod securely in place without the need for drilling a hole or dimple.

Fastening and adjusting the rod from the front of the light is possible but, as I mentioned in a previouse post, I do not find that convenient. Typically, the adjustment would not be performed until the modifier is mounted so access to the front rod end might be restricted or the rod end might not be in view.

Dave F.




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Sat Nov 19, 2011 1:48 pm

Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2011 12:24 pm
Posts: 38

So, the conclusion is, thumbs down on the ratchet handle?

Thanks for trying, honestly, it looks perfect. Would a rubber grommet between the handle and the case not mitigate the overtightening issue?

Are you going to try that Grainger handle, or are you just going with the wing nut and no handle?




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Sat Nov 19, 2011 1:54 pm

Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2011 2:41 pm
Posts: 102
Location: Los Angeles, CA

great write up dave. Although I don't have any large modifiers besides the plm, I have noticed that the larger modifiers have been attracting quite a bit of worry from other users about large modifiers falling off the mount. Glad you found a solution for those that frequently use heavier front loaded modifiers. I also really like the idea of adding a grippy handle to the end but I do worry that the handle might add too much stress to the plastic casing of the einstein where you risk cracking the umbrella mount.




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Sat Nov 19, 2011 3:16 pm

Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 1:19 pm
Posts: 164

c2thew wrote:
great write up dave. Although I don't have any large modifiers besides the plm, I have noticed that the larger modifiers have been attracting quite a bit of worry from other users about large modifiers falling off the mount. Glad you found a solution for those that frequently use heavier front loaded modifiers. I also really like the idea of adding a grippy handle to the end but I do worry that the handle might add too much stress to the plastic casing of the einstein where you risk cracking the umbrella mount.


Thank you. I think the umbrella tube is pretty strong. Certainly, I'm not the only Einstein owner using a screwdriver inserted in it to use as a handle. I do believe even Paul suggested doing that some time back. That said, I agree that excessive stress on the tube needs to be taken into consideration. Truthfully, I'm less worried about cracking the umbrella tube than I am about an attached handle inadvertently overtightening the support rod.

The "safest" solution, was mentioned by Dave Jr. A tapered handle (the Grainger part referenced earlier) would be screwed permanently onto one end of the the threaded rod. You'd insert the rod from the rear of the Einstein as far as it would go and then lock it in place with the E640's umbrella locking knob. The threaded rod would pass through the pre-drilled hole in the speedring. A clamping nut would then be applied and adjusted from the front. Ideal for this application would be this thumb nut:

http://www.amazon.com/16-18-Coarse-Knur ... 228&sr=8-3

If the speedring (rather than the strobe) is attached to the lightstand, an extremely low tech handle solution will work:

Image

As long as the Einstein's stand mount is securely clamped, a section of 5/8" wood dowel makes an excellent handle.

Dave F.




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Sat Nov 19, 2011 3:50 pm

Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2011 12:24 pm
Posts: 38

This is good stuff. Using the mount to secure a handle didn't cross my mind, good idea.

Personally, I will not need to secure the modifier very often, and may never use a stand mounted ring, but would ALWAYS like to have a handle option, so I think I may make a couple of handles with threaded rod, but use a shorter length and just trap it with umbrella screw. This way, the other end of the umbrella shaft mount would still be available to accept an elinchrom deflector (I use these frequently).

Do you think that would work, or would that focus the stress on umbrella mount to too small of an area? I don't have my Einsteins yet, as I just ordered them, that's why I keep asking questions regarding the mount strength. I assume it would work, as this is very similar to using a screwdriver, just slightly more elegant.




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Mon Nov 21, 2011 1:38 pm

Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2009 11:50 am
Posts: 306

Don't the Bowens Quickrings also have a 3/8" mount for your umbrella adapter?

Main negative is that they don't work for Octas, so if anyone wants this, hit their web site and annoy them like I did ;)

Great idea for a safety rod to hold the modifier/Einstein to the speedring...




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Mon Nov 21, 2011 1:43 pm

Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2011 12:24 pm
Posts: 38

Kenyee, you can drill out the 1/4" hole on the Bowens ring and then use with an Octa. Robert (TMR Design) posted a thread about it on POTN (idea courtesy of Dave (Tetrode)). See here: http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=833988&highlight=Yes+virginia




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Mon Nov 21, 2011 3:04 pm

Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 1:19 pm
Posts: 164

kenyee wrote:
Don't the Bowens Quickrings also have a 3/8" mount for your umbrella adapter?

Main negative is that they don't work for Octas, so if anyone wants this, hit their web site and annoy them like I did ;)

Great idea for a safety rod to hold the modifier/Einstein to the speedring...


Dave is correct; the Bowens Quick Ring can be modified to accept octas (by drilling out the 1/4-20 threaded hole). However, with an octa mounted, one of the rods will occupy the Quick Ring's 3/8-16 mounting hole. This precludes the ring from being mounted directly on a lightstand. A four-sided modifier will, of course, leave the 3/8-16 threaded hole vacant so the ring can be directly mounted to a lightstand.

Either way, my support rod can be used as seen here:

Image

Dave F.




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Mon Nov 21, 2011 9:56 pm

Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2009 11:50 am
Posts: 306

tetrode wrote:
kenyee wrote:
Bowens Quick Ring can be modified to accept octas (by drilling out the 1/4-20 threaded hole). However, with an octa mounted, one of the rods will occupy the Quick Ring's 3/8-16 mounting hole. This precludes the ring from being mounted directly on a lightstand.


Yep. That's what I bugged Bowens about. If they added a reinforced corner to it w/ a 3/8" hole, it could be used for an Octa as well. I even sent them a link to the Quickring thread on POTN so they could see what I meant.
Didn't hear back from them about it, though I did find out that the US Bowens rep is about an hour drive from me so I guess I could show up on his doorstep to annoy him more :P




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