Paul C. Buff, Inc. Technical Forum

I have two an 800's one an 1600 an Einstein 640. I have three three csr+, one for each of the alien bees. I hAve csxcv for the Einstein. Two cst's and a cyber commander. I always get 5-10 out of 100 shots that units don't fire. I have changed batteries til I'm blue in face. Tried system without cyber commander. Tried without cst's. tried with sync cords instead of phone jack cords. Same problem w/3 alien bees before I got the Einstein. Sometimes it's one and sometes it's all of them. Seems like it happens in spurts...like 3 or 4 out our ten and then be perfect for next 50.

I'm shooting indoor sports events and flashes always have good line of site and are within 50 ft. Usually metal buildings with aluminum bleachers.

I get one shot for every contestant so it is somewhat imperative that I don't miss. One time I fired the units with hotshoe flash and units on sync....perfect. Borrowed My friends pocket wizards....perfect.

I really like the cybersync system and wish I could solve this issue. Any help is appreciated.

Here some more things that I thought of...

I'v also tried changing frequencies. Seems like the problem is better on the higher frequencies (such as 13-15) but the problem is still not eliminated.

You can tell when a light is getting out of range because the light that is out of range will consistently not fire. However, all of the other lights will still work.

Like I mentioned earlier, its like the problem happens in spells. Yesterday I shot 150 shots, and on numbers 85-100 I had 5 mis-fires. Once or twice one light misfired, once or twice a couple of lights misfired, and once or twice all the lights misfired. Even the light that is 10 ft away misfired and might be the only one that misfires. Before and after this everything worked properly. Today I had the same 150 shots and not one misfire.

Is it possible that someone walks by with a cell phone and causes the problem? Is there some type of computer processing going on in the csr's that causes the problem?

A cell phone would not interrupt the CyberSyncs. However, interference is a possibility, though rather rare.

When you say you have line of sight, is that to the receivers, or just the light?

One thing you can try is putting your CSR+'s on repeater mode. Press and hold the test button until the LED flashes green in bursts of three rapid blinks. This will repeat the signal and possibly catch other lights that may have missed the first signal.

Also, make sure the receivers are not right up against a metal surface, as signal reflections off the surface can interfere.

I'm shooting horse events and am sitting inside an arena with a dirt floor. When I say line of sight I mean that I can see the strobe and the receiver from my position. When you say metal surface, does that include the stand that the light is on (they are paul buff stands). The are basically hanging from the light (csr+ not the battery powered ones) and hanging close to aluminum stand. Also sometimes I put them near the rail that surrounds the arena, but they are a good 3 to 4 ft above the rail.

I have tried the CSR+'s on repeater once, and it didn't seem to help, but I haven't explored this as much as changing frequencies and batteries.

Most of the time i'm sitting in a chair and have I light no more than 10ft from me. Both myself and the light stand are sitting on a dirt floor. The only thing separating me and the receiver is possibly the light stand....but usually the receiver is on my side of the stand when I'm using the retro reflector. The the metal fence around the arena is a good 20 feet away from me and the light. What would cause that light to misfire?

Also I think another big clue is....why would shoot perfectly for 100 shots, then misfire on 5 shots out of ten and then go another 100 shots perfectly (not changing anything). Also, if there are 4 lights on the same frequency they will all misfire 3-5 times out of the same ten shots. True it may be one light or two lights at a time (sometimes all four), but it will happen in same time frame. Its not like one light misfires and then later another another one does it....they all do it at the same time. It would seem that if one light was a little to close to a metal surface that only that light would have problems...can one light affect all of the lights?

Seems like there is a lesser problem at higher frequencies. Is there something that would affect the signals more on the lower frequencies and less at higher frequencies?

Thanks for the help. I really like the concept and the control the cyber commander gives me. I'm looking forward to figuring this out.

In discussing this with our engineer, he suspects it is a propagation issue. Being enclosed among reflective surfaces will yield occasionally erratic results.

A couple of points to consider:
1- Are the failed shots more likely to be shot in portrait orientation? The receivers, presumably, have their antennae pointed vertically. By rotating the camera 90 degrees, you are positioning the transmitters and receivers in a worst case scenario position.

2- Even though you can see the receivers when you look at them, this does not mean the receivers are line of sight with the transmitter when shooting. If your body (even your head) get between them, you can have some attenuation. While not typically a problem, in this type of environment it may be just enough.

3-You may try affixing the receivers higher than the default hanging position to get them as far away as possible from the stands.

You are getting different results from the PocketWizards as they operate on a different frequency and will have different characteristics (which can exhibit problems in other environments).

Hi there. I realize this is an old thread, but I thought I'd add my experience to this. I work for an industrial auction company. We sell equipment in a large auction theatre where I often shoot photos using 8 White Lightning Ultras rigged to the ceiling (similar to a sporting event see the following URL for an image of the environment https://www.rbauction.com/cms_assets/im ... media2.jpg).

I use Cyber Commanders for triggering in this environment. Over the years we've added wireless data for our customers and radio traffic in the 2.4 GHz range has increased considerably in the environment. At times my successful trigger rate falls to as low as 11% (one in 9 attempts). When I test the set-up at the beginning of the day or at the end (when the wireless activity is low) the system works at close to 100%. But when 500 people are using their wireless devices in the space the success rate starts dropping to really low levels. I can only guess that the wireless data network is creating a noise floor or interference that the remotes have problems competing with. I have tested other triggers that operate in a different frequency range in similar conditions at a similar facility and have noticed less effect.

All this to say that if there is free wifi in your environment it might be causing interference with your cyber synch system.