Paul C. Buff, Inc. Technical Forum

Hi everyone,

I am pretty new to photography and finally starting to feel pretty comfortable with my camera (Nikon D7100) as far as composition, settings, etc . My next venture is to buy a lighting setup. I have joined several facebook photo groups and everyone always talks about how the Alien Bees are the way to go for new photographers looking to start our with creating their own light. I have a basement that is approximately 16 feet long and 12 feet wide with a ceiling height of 8 feet. It does have a walk out sliding glass door but it is tucked into a corner so the basement doesn't get too much natural light. I was hoping that I could get some recommendations as what to buy for the size of my basement. I want to go with an alien bee set up. I know nothing about this type of lighting and will have to do a lot of self learning. I need ideas of everything that I would want to get. I mainly will be photographing, babies, families, pets and people in general. I do have a Nikon SB700 that I also do not know how to use but I'm not sure if they could be used together anyway. I just want to place an order and make sure that I include everything that I would need so that I can start learning right away. As far as PLM and the unit itself, I did want to go as large as I can but didn't want to order anything that wouldn't work for the size space that I have available in my basement. Also, needing to know what accessories I need to add as well. Thanks for any help you can offer. :)

Mary

You sound like you are where I was 4 years ago - I had a D90 I was learning to use, a SB700, and a living room just the same size as your basement (16 ft x 12 ft x 8 ft ceiling). I knew I was interested in full-body shots with fluffy soft light, so I went for white PLMs, one of each size, cage mounted version with both the front and back black cover (for versatility).

Some random, rambling thoughts:

• The big PLM is wonderful if you have the room for it, but an 8 foot ceiling really isn't enough room. I most frequently use the middle-sized one.

• I have a B800 and two B400s. The B400s give me plenty of light for most purposes, but then the D90 has a base ISO of 200 (vs 100 for the D7100). OTOH even with a base ISO of 100 I'd expect a B400 to provide enough light - and more than enough if using silver PLMs (soft or extreme). My two cents would be that if you get one light, get a B400; if you get two, you might want a B800 for your second. A B1600 is way overkill.

• A set of grids and a set of barn doors turned out to be useful when I had two or three lights to play with.

• A flash meter turned out to be a valuable tool when I had three lights to play with. It probably would have helped when I was using a two-light setup, too.

• One 13' stand is nice to have for the big footprint (used with the medium or large PLM) Two would have been too many.

• I've been cheap about triggering the lights. Instead of getting a radio trigger, I've used the pop up flash (set to manual, low power), my speedlight (ditto) or a cheap e-bay IR trigger. It works, and it's all I need.

• Except as a trigger, and in a few experiments, I really haven't mixed my SB700 with my alien bees. I know I could if I needed to - provided I set the SB700 to su-4 mode and made sure everything was totally manual.

• Speaking of totally manual, I don't like "auto iso" in general, so I keep it turned off. This means that I haven't been caught by the common bug of photos blown out because the camera "helpfully" boosted ISO based on what things looked like before the alien bees fired.

• If my shooting style were a little different, I likely would have started with a pair of softboxes, instead of a set of PLMs, and I'd be really tempted by the Omni reflector.

Marykrn,

One thing you may consider adding to your shopping list is a reflector or two. I've accumulated 7 or more over the years, and each comes in very handy in one way or another on a regular basis. There is so very much you can bring to a lighting setup by simply adding a carefully replaced reflector - without even adding another strobe.


Craig

httpS://www.craigwasselphotoart.com

AlienBees are great, but Einsteins have more versatility for a broader range of photography. They do cost more, but some of that cost can be mitigated with the savings in radio remotes, if you go that route.

The Genius package is a good starting point. If the cost is too high, you can get it down to under 900 by selecting B400s, a CST, and CSR instead of the Einsteins, Cyber Commander, and CSXCV receivers.

There is no one size fits all light set. Trying to get everything you might need is the best way to spend money you don't need. Get two lights (some even say start with one), then use them until you find a limitation, then get another. The same with modifiers. The PLM umbrellas in the package are quite versatile, and will do much of what you need. The 86" are likely too big for your space.

The suggestion of a reflector is not a bad one, as that can effectively turn a 2 light set up into a 3 light set up.

Marykrn and Technical Support: don't get me wrong - I am certainly not saying get a reflector instead of a 2nd or 3rd moonlight :-) I switched from Bowens to Einsteins/CSXCV a few years ago, and don't have one single regret. I now own three e640's (in addition to two CyberCommanders, two Vagabonds, mods . . . .) and cannot fully describe how much easier they have made sessions - especially when going on location.

Marykrn - if you can swing the Genius Package, you will be jumping in right away with a setup that has great capability, and that you can add onto as you learn and want to do more and different things with your sets.


Craig

httpS://www.craigwasselphotoart.com

Thanks to all taking the time to respond. I so appreciate it! Also EKG could you please tell me what the grids are used? Also, you mentioned that you used your popup flash with an IR trigger? Is there something on line that I could refer to to figure that all out. I have the NIkon D71000 and Nikon SB700. Is there a specific flash meter you would recommend and are they easy to use - I've never used one?

The grids I mostly use for a hair or rim light - a third light from the back corner. The grid is one way to keep the light of the flash off the backdrop while still hitting the side/rear of the model. More generally, I use grids or barn doors when I need to limit the spread of light from a given flash, because where the light doesn't go is just as important as where it does go. Other people have used grids for techniques I don't use (or just haven't tried yet), like putting a spotlight on the backdrop behind the model.

I don't use the pop-up flash with an IR trigger; I've used either it or an IR trigger to trigger the Alien Bees. Mostly I used the pop-up flash before I bought the IR trigger, and it's still there if the IR trigger suddenly dies and I need a backup method. The advantage of the pop up flash is that you already have it, so it's "free!" The drawbacks are that it can add a bit of unwanted light, and that it can overhead and shut down.

I'll let other people talk about flash meters. :mrgreen:

Hi, Marykrn

If you are looking at investing in PCB gear, then you may want to consider also investing in a PCB CyberCommander. For $180.00, you get a unit that will remotely adjust the power of any PCB light you purchase, and will give you ability to "meter" your light lights (flash meter).

There is also a way to use the CyberCommander as a light meter (measuring existing, natural light as opposed to flash output), but if you shoot with a DSLR then you may find you don't use that function as much.

Are flash meters hard to use? Well, it depends. In my experience, photographers who have been thinking for many years about aperture purely from a "depth of field" standpoint can have a hard time starting to think of something like F/8 as also being a measure of flash output. This is second nature to me now after many years, but I still remember very well stumbling a bit with this when I started learning studio lighting.

Beyond that learning, flash meters are pretty simple to use. You tell it your ISO, your shutter speed, and your aperture (which will tell your flash how much output is need to light that aperture), and you press a button to fire your strobe and test. You then use a button to adjust your flash output to match your desired aperture.

Craig

httpS://www.craigwasselphotoart.com

Hi Marykrn. I don't know your situation. But, f you live in a city find some photographers who are successful in your town and assist them. You'll see a lot more gear that you can ask what and why about and see the shooting situations in which they are used.

:TLDR: - If i had to start from zero, I'd buy the white plm, a decent stand, radios, + an umbrella bracket. I'd go out and make a ton of pictures. Maybe learn some things. Then when the time came to go for big lights get the Genius package and a pop up reflector Learn some more then buy more stuff. If you can't work your speedlite off camera you're going to be way in the weeds with 3 lights... on to the longform.

Before we begin: DON'T BUY CHEAP STANDS !!!DON'T BUY CHEAP STANDS!!! DO NOT BUY CHEAP STANDS!!!

First off, go here - http://strobist.blogspot.com/2006/03/lighting-101.html
and LEARN a little before you spend and find yourself with a bunch of junk you don't need.



It's nice to see TS being honest about the right way to build a kit. This is more proof [to me at least] that I made the right choice in going with PCB products.

1 CST and 1 CSR [assuming all of the rest of your lights can be slaved] is a good start for reliable radio gear. Remember to find an inexpensive case to put them in [an old point & shoot case will do]. Honestly, if you're just getting started you don't need a cybercommander. It's just an added layer of frustration. Add layers of complication as you LEARN. My Cybercommander is valuable in my kit because I know the what and the why of my gear. You have to know what the exposure triangle is before you can understand what a light meter is telling you.

The white 51" PLM [or the 64 if you want to shoot full legnth [get the one with the speedring for versatility] with black cover + front diffusion is a fantastic modifier [eventually, you'll 'graduate' to the soft silver. Don't start with silver. It's like learning to ride a Harley instead of a tricycle] it's basically a much better/durable version of the standard 3 in 1 umbrella. You could spend the next 3 months with just this, your speedlite, a CST + CSRB, an umbrella bracket and a decent stand and if you shot every day you'd have taken the first 3 steps of a million mile journey.

These - http://www.ebay.com/itm/191242028010 are also great. Not as nice as the front mount Buff collapsable. But, it's a good jump off point for a "controllable large soft source". This offers more control via the grid and you can use it with the diffusion off for "snappier" but still soft light. I recomend this particular piece of kit over the Buff octa because it works with speedlites and Bees/Einsteins with less fuss. As you LEARN you'll come across concepts like "quality of light" and you'll see why the Buff octa and the Elinchrom deep are "better"

DON'T BUY CHEAP BAGS!!! DON'T BUY CHEAP BAGS!!! DON'T BUY CHEAP BAGS!!!

If shooting on white is part of your gameplan. You can shoot a group of 3-4 adults on white with 2 B400s and a speedlite. It's easier with 2 B1600/Einsteins and a B400 though. Watch this and LEARN - http://dedpxl.com/the-many-uses-of-white-seamless-pt-1/ Watch it 3 times. Shoot some loved ones in this setup and get comfortable with the what and the why BEFORE you shoot a client in it. Nothing is worse than floundering in front of the people who are paying you. By the way: Barndoors are expensive. You can use $4 sheets of fomecore to do the same job. However, that's not nearly as conveinent as a set of barndoors.

Have I mentioned? DON'T BUY CHEAP STANDS!!! DON'T BUY CHEAP BAGS!!! DON'T BUY CHEAP STANDS!!!

Don't forget bags. Better bags and stands are more important than another head. Cheap bags and stands will end you up in the miserable world of "out for repair". That means your cheap stand just cost you a repair bill or the frustration of replacing broken kit. Crappy bags leave your kit disorganised. Which "doesn't matter" until you're flopping around in front of a paying client. I wish someone would bring back the "suitcase insert" those things were amazing...

Good luck

Kenn Rhem

Wow, I am so overwhelmed with thanks. So many people have taken the time to help me out with all my questions. Some people even going so far as to insert direct links for me. I really do appreciate it. I have been reading and re-reading all your advice and trying to put together my list of "to buys". I wanted to ask then, it was mentioned that if I purchased the cyber commander, I wouldn't need to buy a light meter. Would that be referring to something like a sekonic light meter which someone had mentioned to me before? I know also that it was suggested that a cyber commander mostly likely would be overwhelming just starting out like I am, but I would like to know the answer even if I don't necessarily get one now but maybe buy one in the future. Thanks again for being so helpful and taking time out of your day to help me out. If anyone knows anyone in the Southern NJ area that would be willing to offer any classes or anything like that, I would love to hear about them!

Thank you, thank you, thank you!