Paul C. Buff, Inc. Technical Forum

In a series of threads on Fred Miranda forum, it was asserted by a Profoto blogger that the Profoto D1 monolight maintains constant color of 5600° +/- 30° and was therefore more color accurate than Einstein. He offered specs from Profoto that imply this, but which are cleverly stated such as to not reveal the actual color shift VS power setting.

I disputed this and suggested that D1 is, like AB and most others, a voltage controlled flash unit and likely had a color shift of around 500° from max power to min power. As a result I was demeaned and accused of spreading false information, and constantly attacked by "Kacey" (a small maker of various accessories) and a couple other Buff haters on FM.

As a result, I issued a challenge for anyone owning a Profoto D1 to actually measure the color shift. One user did this, and reported a 750° color shift between full power and minimum power . . . a greater shift than AB or any other product we make, and totally unlike the constant color produced by Einstein. I also dug up a Rangerfinder article that also confirmed my assertions and posted it.

After successfully challenging false and misleading information on this subject and correcting the record, I was surprised to find this morning that I had been banned from FM, while the purveyors of false information remain.

I find it interesting that Profoto and their distributor MAC group are paid advertisers on FM, while I am not.

Here are the links in question:

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/937117/0
http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/ ... astmessage
http://www.profoto-usa.com/customerserv ... D1_Eng.pdf (specs near the end)

Results of independent test:
TTLKurtis wrote:
I just did a quick test, and for what it's worth, on the D1 1,000Ws the color temperature is as follows:

Going to also see what the readings are from a 500Ws and then the AcuteB Head on AcuteB2 600 pack...

Profoto D1 1,000Ws
Minimum Power: 5,150ºK
Full Power: 5,900ºK

Profoto AcuteB 600 (not a monolight)
Minimum Power: 6,050ºK
Full Power: 5,850ºK

Will have to do the 500Ws another day, gotta run!

Reply from Paul on FM:

Thanks for taking the time to set things straight. Measuring color temperatures is not a black and white issue (no pun intended). Different camera, test cards and RAW tools will produce widely varying absolute numbers. If you use color meters, the results have an even greater variation.

Notice the 300° difference in your reading and the published D1 spec of 5600°K and your observed 750° shift over the power range VS Rangefinder's 400° shift. Believe me, I do an awful lot of this sort of testing and am quite accustomed to seeing these differences. What I end up publishing is typically a median of the results of a dozen or so tests with various cameras, lenses and color targets.

Since it is the actual photo that counts in the end, my "gold standard" is using a Kodak professional color card in a room that has calibrated neutral grey surfaces throughout and RAW shots and Adobe Bridge. Within the color card's various greys, I will typically see 100° to 200° difference, and a similar difference between various camera and lenses.

I also consistently see, particularly on color vs power tests like your, an invariably larger color shift from any of my several color meters than I see in RAW tests. I attribute this to the likelihood that the color meters (Gossen, Sekonic and Minolta) have greater response to near UV colors than do typical lenses and cameras. The color meters also vary widely, from the same light source and power setting, with distance from the meter to the light. I attribute this to non-linearities of the three RGB sensors used.

As to the AcuteB 600, I expected the much closer color VS Power results because, from the published specs, which show faster flash durations with power reduction, this light uses capacitor switch (as do most packs) as the primary means of establishing power level, as opposed to the voltage control means used in the D1. I would even go so far as to suggest that if you did a series of RAW test you may find the max to min color shift on the AcuteB considerably closer to 0°K than the 200°K you observed.

I do hope this whole ugly thread has produced some degree of technical enlightenment to readers as a counterbalance to all the squabbling and ego trips.

FYI, as a result of repeated attacks against me from a small group of posters on FM, I did two separate polls the over the past 2 years asking if member appreciated my presence and input. Both times over 80% of members asked me to continue to post.

I ask you to draw your own conclusions to the implications of all of this and post any comments on this subject here, or on FM.

Apart from a battle of member egos over there which result in an end effect of stupidity, I don't find any issues with what goes on at FM. Certainly no reason to ban anyone!

Rather than embrace information from people such as yourself and FM members can use their own minds to determine what to take aboard and what to discard, egos jump in resulting in a battle to prove who is the most superior.

End of the day, anywhere the makers of equipment are prepared to discuss openly anything about their product should be encouraged by any forum. Naturally, you would expect makers to squabble a little between their own and opposition products. FM is only strong if it supports this type of debate. If it turns to censoring or openly showing a bias to "paying" members/companies it loses it's appeal.

To ban you, Kacey or anyone else is plain stupid. It only negatively effects us, the consumer-member of likely valuable pieces of information of the products we will likely purchase.

Now, as a PCB consumer, if there is no PCB representation over there, there is no interest for me to continue to visit.

Mr. Luap, you keep doing THE GREAT WORK that you do for all of us PHOTOGRAPHERS in capturing THE LIGHT we need, In the END it is all ENVIOUS of your GREAT WORK Mr. Luap. PROFOTO is not something I like I did my research and COREY was a GREAT GUY that convinced me after research in going after ALL PAUL C. Buff Equipment for me getting into PHOTOGRAPHY, all I can say is GREAT WORK on your part Brother. :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tux3JFplYUk

Corey Nichols knows what he is talking about, way to go for all THE GREAT WORK you do
Mr. Luap......

The Tom Dix posts are straight-up hilarious. And Ellis, as always, is very open and honest.

It's a damned shame they showed ya the door, Paul - You really can't put a price on having a direct link to a company's Products/Tech Discussions as is with your case. And no one can question your company's top-notch support. FM can be a wonderful resource but as with any fun party things get out of hand & messy quickly. AND THEN the strippers show up... :?

True, you stand up for your products as you totally should and sometimes, well... I think you referred to it as being 'Bold' ;) , so some folks get turned off by this and bash. As a business man, you know this all too well and even with the spirited talk you seem to take it like a champ. People buy products, not character and that's what these discussions should be about - Even though character seems to come free with your products. That's not necessarily a bad thing - it is what it is, ya know? Hey, At the very least you bowed out a gentleman and even presented an sincere enough apology for those moments that left the some of the uptight skirts with that not-so-fresh feeling. At the end of the day it's just another forum. Photography isn't FM, it is & always will be Photography. No one can own it or be the utmost authority. Truth be told, I'm willing to bet (figuratively speaking) that a good amount of your customers either plain don't care what happens over at FM or aren't even aware it exists - that's not saying they're any less of a 'photographer' or your products are any less legitimate or important to the market's needs. Just MHO. ;)

Keep it strong & keep it comin', Paul!
Now, I'mma shut my windbag...

It's hard to argue with people that have an agenda. You just can't win especially when (if?)the mods are of a similar opinion.

"I would even go so far as to suggest that if you did a series of RAW test you may find the max to min color shift on the AcuteB considerably closer to 0°K than the 200°K you observed."

I own an AcuteB and I agree about the minimal color shift. I also use a Profoto D4 2400 and it has little shift (Price:$7,510.00 at B&H), and that's what you would expect for the money. The D4 is a favorite of commercial photographers who shoot product.

I would not use a D1 ... just don't like the design.

My Einstein works as advertised, good value. And with a Mini Vag it will be about as portable as an AcuteB.

I left FredMirandaForums months ago. The Flame Wars on FM remind me of News Groups in the early days, before the net.

If you treated Paul C Buff with respect, and asked REAL questions, you would get well reasoned answers. I guess that isn't enough.

It came down to this: The color shift of D1 was being badly misrepresented on this forum and I exposed the huge myths being presented. Next day I was gone. I kind of thought FM readers would like to know what they were really buying . . . I guess the small gang of Profoto lovers at FM cares more about defending their enormous investment and perceived prestige than about what the equipment actually does.

All I know is that without Paul providing the significantly detailed explanation regarding the technical attributes of flash durations, voltage variations and cut-off methods ... I'd have been disappointed with everything I would have continued to try. Now that I understand what the issues are and the options provided, I CAN CHOOSE to intelligently approach my buying decisions to achieve what is IMPORTANT TO ME. For that I will always be greatful for Paul's direct candor, even if my purchasing decisions are for products other than Paul's.

It's sad that a person should be banned for telling the truth, just because others don't want it to be known. I'll never say that Paul's products are the best in the world ... because it depends on your needs and applications as to which is BEST for a given need. Paul knows that and is fine with that.

But I do know emphatically that I have never run across any CEO so reachable and willing to personally educate the marketplace with technical truth rather than have an army of spinmasters who can't get you the true technical information you really want to know.

I had a very long 'discussion' in FM with another member trying to dissuade me from the fact that the combination of AB's, Einsteins & the VBM will provide me with a very versatile system. He tried in vain to argue with partial information as it fit his needs to do so. But at the end of the day, he really wasn't interested in understanding the truth, he simply wanted to refute Paul's products. Could go on ... many others will, but it is a sad thing.

I used to respect Fred Miranda . . . but now, I'll publicly say the man is utterly unethical.

He posted a thread today in which he says I was banned due to multiple complaints against me. Then he locked that thread to keep supporters from posting. It's not hard to read between the lines and know who issued those complaints . . . the ones I exposed as spreading false and misleading information.

So I guess the formula is, when someone posts false and misleading information glorifying advertiser, then someone else exposes this information as utterly false, the one that exposed the truth is banned.

Two days before the banning occurred I submitted a general complaint that the thread was being abused and the rules were being broken by several members (including myself) and that the thread should be removed or locked. Then you turn around and lock a legitimate thread because you don't want to hear what your members have to say.

I guess we now know who is really in control of moderating at FM . . . the 10 or so consistent hate mongers. So Fred, if you are watching, you are either unworthy of operating a forum or you have been duped by 10 out of your tens of thousands of legitimate members, some 87% of whom voted in FM polls that they welcomed the information I brought.

But, hey, it's your forum, apparently controlled by 1/100 of 1% of your activist hate mongers. I can only deduce they are your buddies or "favored" members.

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/ ... astmessage