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Tue Jan 25, 2011 1:42 am

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Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 11:49 am
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mrscott wrote:
Luap wrote:
I agree your video was very positive. But there is one technical point that concerned me . . . you reported 785 shots without the modeling lamp and 775 shot with a 40W modeling lamp turned on. This indicates some sort of discrepancy (discrepancies always occur in such tests). The 40 W modeling lamp should have used 1/3 of the battery's 130 watt hour capacity in one hour of use, thereby reducing the number of flashes by 1/3 in a one hour flash test.


The web site explains some differences... DON'T CHANGE THE RULES GUYS (still impressed however, but it chapps off the Buff!)

"
Without 40w light, AB800 Full = 785 @ 10s interval
With 40w light, AB800 Full = 775 @ 5s interval
"

Was the modeling light cycled on refresh or did it burn 100% for 1h 2m?

PCB, Do VML's opperate more effeciently with a minimum load?
i.e. whats the difference between 40 Ws ramp up to 120 Ws/second vs. 0 Ws ramp up to 120 Ws/second
i.e.2. 8 seconds of idle time without the 40w light vs 0 seconds of idle time with the 40w light


Awe hell, its still a descrepancy, but its a game changer none-the-less.

Thanks PCB.


The 5 second thing explains the discrepancy . . . I missed that. If the light is set to extinguish the modeling lamp during recycle it won't slow down the recycle time and, at 5 seconds per pop, it's not on most of the time. But if the model lamp is on all the time, it will slow the recycle and give considerably fewer pops per charge.




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Tue Jan 25, 2011 1:59 am

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Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 11:49 am
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BigIronCruiser wrote:
I'm going to put a slightly different spin on the clamp and USB issue. This was mentioned to Tech Support, by the way, while discussing an unrelated Einstein issue.

The literature that was available before and after the VML introduction gave the impression that the clamp would securely attach the VML to a lightstand. Absent anything to the contrary, it was anticipated that the VML would always stay put, even if the lightstand were thrown over a shoulder. As it turns out, this is an iffy proposition that would very likely lead to a broken VML. In addition, the literature did not specify a max diameter of 1.25", nor did it state that the bottom of the VML had to be resting on a joint, knob or knuckle. Reality eventually fell short of expectations.

Similarly, there are issues with the USB port. Buyers expected to have an additional way to charge any USB device that drew less than 0.5A. However, it's already been reported that some devices (i.e. iPhone) that draw 0.5A or less will not charge. I'm not aware that this discrepancy has been explained.

Personally, the clamp and USB port on a VML is sort of like a remote starter on a car; very nice to have, but totally irrelevant to its primary purpose. Even so, owners would do more than simply shrug their shoulders if they got home and discovered that the remote only worked while buckled in the seat.

One way to handle this is to ignore it and do nothing. However, a better option might be to manage expectations by modifying (1) the VML description on the PCB website(s) and (2) the VML Quick Start Guide. Just publish the restrictions in both of those locations, and life goes on.


It was not stated that "that the VML would always stay put, even if the lightstand were thrown over a shoulder."

Surely, every light stand has a tube less than 1 1/4" somewhere above the bottom section.

Many users have reported that just putting a piece of thin rubber on the inside of the clamp will hold it securely. Also, replacing the spring with a short piece of 1/4" ID tubing will allow tighter clamping. Also third party clamps can be used with the VML 1/4 - 20 mounting socket. No other inverter, to my knowledge, has either a stand mount or a USB port. If VML had neither it would still exceed all expectations or any non-existent competitor.

When you design an entirely new product from scratch is is difficult to predict sliding friction and every possible user application.

TheUSB port is an extra, added by the manufacturer. It is what it is and can't easily be changed. You can charge any USB device by plugging it's own charger in one of the AC outlets, or by using a suitable powered USB hub.

By all reports, VML is a fantastic and game changing product at a very low price, with as many WS per battery charge as any of the 20lb inverter packs, and close to 3 times the WS per charge as Acute and Ranger systems.

I will not allow this forum to become a slam Buff forum like the others. In time there may be improvements to VML, but do you want us to go into a 4 month longer delivery time for minor issues like this?




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Tue Jan 25, 2011 4:00 pm

Joined: Thu May 20, 2010 9:37 pm
Posts: 13

Hmmm. I still haven't had free time to test further (my rental studios have been rented continuously, no studio time!), but yes, the two tests were made at different intervals.

I did this for a purpose - I had no idea how long recycle would be at first, so I chose 10 seconds to be sure that as the battery was expiring, if the times got long, the camera would not fire unless it was fully recharged. Ten seconds seemed safe, and was.

Having the experience of that test behind me, I chose a 5 second recycle, because I knew it was "safe" and more closely approximated my shooting style if (and when) I would need to use a modeling lamp. The lamp ran continuously and fully; it was not set to track or cycle.

I hope this helps.




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Tue Jan 25, 2011 4:59 pm

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Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 11:49 am
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Hmmmm . . . with the model lamp on continuously this should sloe the recycle by about 1/3 and also reduce the number of pops by 1/3 (and probably did). I would think without the model lamp at 5 seconds you would have gotten about 1100 pops at 320WS.

Keep in mind Ranger Quadra gets only 150 pops at its max 400WS, weighs 11lbs, recycles slower than VML/AB800, has no stand clamp or USB, has longer Full Power flash duration, and costs 3X (even discounted) as much as VML/AB800, and can't be used on AC power for 150W modeling and sub 1 second recycle time. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/6 ... ead_A.html

In the 600WS class, Profoto Acute B 600WS Powered Generator ($2094 + $819 for head), recycles about 10% faster than VML/AB1600, yields about 160 600WS pops per charge, has twice as long full power flash duration, requires optional adaptor to attach studio accessories, no stand clamp or USB, and also can't be used in the studio on AC. The 5AH SLA battery costs $272.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/4 ... rator.html

I still see ignorant comments on other forums saying "Gee, only 450 shots per battery charge from the $89.95 battery at 640WS . . . that's not enough for what I shoot!!




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Tue Jan 25, 2011 8:30 pm

Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 5:00 pm
Posts: 30

Thanks for posting the review. I'm curious as to what temperature the endurance test was conducted under. It's my understanding that battery life degrades significantly under cold temps.




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Tue Jan 25, 2011 9:35 pm

Joined: Thu May 20, 2010 9:37 pm
Posts: 13

Paul - I couldn't agree more. I often see examples where folks don't see the forest, but for the trees (and they are putting sap on my car!). Example: when the 5DM2 came out and folks complained about the audio and the lack of 720p. I couldn't believe what I was hearing! This DSLR, which you were going to buy anyway, ALSO shoots full 1080p video? Seriously? Revolutionary.

Although I am sure that your competitors make fine lights and such, I (and pretty much every other photographer I know) shoots with your products. Bang for buck, they can't be beat. And I say this from a position of being able to afford whichever lights I want, Elinchrom, Profoto, etc. Value is what I am after.

I think our Studio B is open in the morning and I will probably run a few more tests then.

Ventana - The studio was 67 degrees.




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Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:08 pm

Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 5:00 pm
Posts: 30

theSOPHAdotCOM wrote:
Ventana - The studio was 67 degrees.


Thanks Bud. I believe you guys are in NH right ? It's around freezing there right now. If you have a chance to repeat the endurance test outside I believe it would be very useful data for a lot of people.




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Wed Jan 26, 2011 2:23 am

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Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 11:49 am
Posts: 1432

ventana wrote:
Thanks for posting the review. I'm curious as to what temperature the endurance test was conducted under. It's my understanding that battery life degrades significantly under cold temps.



Litihums perform better in cold temperatures than SLAs and most other batteries. I see reports of successful operation in the 0 to -10°F range. Don't have the exact data in front of me, but they should be pretty good at freezing. They're generally rated from 32°F to 140°F. Some shooters in really cold sub zero temps for a long time wrap the whole VML in insulating material and the inverter temperature will keep the battery warm.

Using them in the cold shouldn't degrade life to speak of, but they should be stored and charge at more normal temps.




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Thu Jan 27, 2011 1:35 am

Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2011 1:32 am
Posts: 1
Location: Las Vegas NV

I just want to get my hands on mine!! Can't wait. I think GAME CHANGER is right.
Live in Vegas, so I'll let you know how they do in the heat. I plan to go shoot in the middle of the desert/ sand dunes etc.
Let's pump those bad boys out. People complaining about little crap can put it up on Ebay, I'll buy it in a second!




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Thu Jan 27, 2011 2:00 am

Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 7:29 pm
Posts: 14

Yes!
I ordered one and cannot wait to get my hands on it.
I'm considering to get abr800 and i think that will be a perfect combination.
Light weight of abr800 and VMI...
I love my Vagabond ii but sometimes it's kind of heavy to carry
it around.




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